帕秋仁波切：如何用「心」指導孩子 & 幫助患有焦慮症的孩子－在靈感中翻譯佛法，在業力下努力微笑

帕秋仁波切：如何用「心」指導孩子 & 幫助患有焦慮症的孩子

Exclusive Interview with Kyabgön Phakchok Rinpoche專訪帕秋仁波切

In August 2014, Bodhi Kids founder Maya van der Meer had the fortunate opportunity to interview Kyabgön Phakchok Rinpoche, holder of the Treasures of Chokgyur Lingpa from the Nyingma School of Tibetan Buddhism. Scroll down to watch the interview segments.

2014年八月，藏傳佛教寧瑪派秋吉林巴伏藏持有者—帕秋仁波切，接受了「菩提孩童」創辦人瑪雅‧汎德米爾的專訪。以下是採訪的片段。

http://www.bodhikids.org/exclusive-interview-with-kyabgon-phakchok-rinpoche/

Rinpoche grew up with the most profound Dharma around him at all times. His grandfather, the late Kyabje Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche is one of his main teachers along with the incomparable Kyabje Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche. He also received a traditional education from the Dzongsar Shedra in India. Nevertheless, Rinpoche shares how so much depends on skillful parental guidance and care. His mother, Sangyum Dechen Paldron, still had to teach him not to kill bugs; she still had to check to make sure he wasn’t being lazy in his studies; and she herself had to balance her expressions of love and discipline towards him.

仁波切成長的環境中充滿了極為深奧的佛法，已故的怙主祖古烏金仁波切是他的祖父與主要的上師之一，此外，無與倫比的怙主紐殊堪仁波切亦是其主要上師之一。他也曾在印度的宗薩佛學院接受傳統教育。無論如何，仁波切和我們分享了身為父母者若能對孩子有善巧的指導與關懷是何其重要。其母昆桑迭千佛母至今仍教導他不要殺害昆蟲，並督促他要繼續研讀而不要放逸，她自己也必須在對兒子的愛與管教之間找到平衡點。

Today, Rinpoche balances his responsibilities to his lineage and students around the world with being a family man. He has a wife and two young children. Rinpoche shares such skillful and wise advice for parents in this interview: how to work your own mind and how to guide your own children. Rinpoche even answers some questions from parents on the Bodhi Kids Facebook page such as, “How do I help my son who has an anxiety disorder?”

如今，仁波切已婚且育有兩名幼子，同時也在肩負傳承重擔、教導全球弟子和家庭之間尋找平衡點。仁波切在專訪中和為人父母者分享了善巧且智慧的建言：「如何善用你的心並指導孩子」。仁波切還回答了「菩提孩童」臉書上一些父母的提問，例如：「如何幫助患有焦慮症的孩子？」

Enjoy the playlist below (this clips from the interview play one after another) and we hope it is of benefit to you and yours! Sarva Mangalam!

以下是播放列表（訪問片段將分幾個部分播放），願各位喜歡，也希望對你和孩子有所助益。願一切吉祥！

1. How to Understand the Mind 如何了解「心」

Everybody knows about IPhone in this world, almost like one billion people know about IPhone, more than one billion people. When you say ‘mind’, everybody has a question, “What is mind?” Come on, who created IPhone – somebody’s mind. Who bought this IPhone? Somebody’s mind. Who thinks it’s a very good item? Somebody’s mind. Now that the mind we suffer, mind that we are happy. Mind that really triggers everything, the world, happy or not, how you receive it. Now that mind is completely becoming a secret. So why you not talk about the mind? Mind teach children like this, you do like this, who’s feeling of like it. That is the mind. When you feel upset, you don’t like nobody, that is the mind upsets. When your mind happy, you see everybody happy, so they are nice. That is the mind. When you say, ‘I love my daddy, mommy.’ Who is loving? That love is mind. So try to focus point, the Mind. Then when you have the mind, then rebirth, death, all these experiences of the physical body, but not the mind. Mind is continuing, until when you are enlightened. When the mind continues, that is what rebirth means – the body is rebirthing, not the mind, you know.

一提起全球知名的「IPhone」，幾乎有超過十億的人都知道。但是當你說到「心」的時候，幾乎每個人都有疑問：「到底心是什麼？」拜託，是誰創造了IPhone？ ── 是某個人的心；是誰買下了這個IPhone？ ──是某個人的心；是誰認為IPhone是個好產品？ ──是某個人的心。然而，那個讓我們受苦、讓我們快樂的心，我們快樂與否、如何接受都是由它引發的那個心，現在卻變得徹底神祕，因此你何不談談它呢？是心在引導孩子要像這樣、要這樣做，是誰有喜歡的感受呢？答案就是「心」。當你覺得低落，看到誰都不順眼，那是「心」在低落；當你的心快樂時，見到誰都會覺得他們快樂又可親，那也是心。當你說：「我愛我的爸爸、媽媽。」到底是誰在愛呢？那個愛就是心。因此試著專注在這一點上。我們有心，而投胎、死亡，那些全是身體的經歷，不是心。心會持續，直到我們證悟。轉世的意思是身體再度投胎，而不是心。

That will be, I think, the real principal of Buddhist teachings. It’s the mind. And we can experience it, our mind can change how we perceive the world. We do that, everybody knows that. You can experience that, it is nothing about like a belief, you know. So why you not want to give that magical gift that you know to exchange, game-changer. Why don’t want to give that for it your child. And when you see somebody bullied her, she says, ‘My mind is little bit bad. It’s Okay, you know’ She no need to blame, but she knows how to change the mind. In that, a bully becomes a less effect her.

我認為「心」就是佛陀教法的真正原則。我們可以體驗到，心能改變我們對世界的感知。我們都是這樣做的，大家也曉得。你可以自行體驗，這和信仰完全無關。因此，何不把自己知道的那份魔法禮物用來改變一切呢？何不把這一點傳授給你的孩子呢？當你看到別人霸凌你的女兒時，她可以說：「我的心感覺有點糟，但是沒關係！」她不需要去責備別人，但是她知道怎麼去改變心，因此霸凌這件事對她的影響就不會那麼大了。

2. How to Help a Child Experiencing Anxiety Disorders 如何幫助患有焦慮症的孩子

Rinpoche: Gentle focus to the breath for few minutes every day is very important. Gentle focus to breath, breathing, and do together for a few minutes every day. And again, talk about the mind who feels… Don’t talk about anxiety, just talk about the mind because the mind is affected by physical, or chemical or physical recognition, habit or karma – different conditions basically make this kind of anxiety mind. But don’t talk about anxiety, talk about the mind. What is mind? How to understand the mind? And try to be compassionate, more kind. So kind, mind and, you know, gentle focus to breath – that is good to start with principle.

仁波切：每天花幾分鐘的時間將注意力輕輕地放在呼吸上，這很重要。輕輕地專注在呼吸上，每天和孩子一起專注在呼吸上幾分鐘。再一次地，談談那個會感受的心…而不要談論焦慮，只要談論心。因為心受到身體、化學物質或身體認知的影響，也受到習性或業力的影響，基本上是這些不同條件創造了這類焦慮的心。所以不要談論焦慮，只要談論心。心是什麼？如何來了解心？試著變得慈悲、更慈愛。帶著慈愛來談論心，再加上輕輕地專注於呼吸 ──這會是很好的開端。

M: I think a lot of children are being diagnosed just with anxiety disorders. So your advice is really helpful when you say don’t talk about anxiety because sometimes the children tell, ‘Oh, something’s wrong with my mind’, and then just reify it…

瑪雅：很多孩子被診斷有焦慮症，您剛剛說不要和孩子談論焦慮，這會很有幫助。因為有時候孩子會說：「喔，我的心有問題！」然後就把問題具體化……

Rinpoche: I think, that’s what I said before. Before going to the children, look at yourself. When somebody is telling you almost every week – you have a problem with your mind. Every week or every month, a problem…, the person who is a really trustworthy person telling you there is something problem with your mind. Whether you have a problem or not, you could have feel that you have a problem. Now you do it exactly the same to the children. And their only trust they have is their parents. And parents sometimes we say sometimes we don’t, it depends. So of course, everybody has anxiety somehow, you know, it depends on more or less, you know. So sometimes physical things, that’s why you need drugs, I don’t know. But it’s a mental issues and the more effect were physical, you should learn this kind and gentle focus with the breath, and talk about the mind, you know. And that level, I think slowly can change when they become more grow, put more emphasize on that actions. I can see that, I have small monks, age of 14, 15, 16, and started from 15, they do every day one hour meditation. And the differences is meditating monks and non-meditating monks at that young, teenagers, big difference. So, you know it’s obvious, you know. Thank you.

仁波切：如我先前所言，要和孩子相處前，先得檢視自己。如果有個十分值得信賴的人每天都告訴你：「你的心有問題。」而且是周而復始、每週每月地提醒，不管你的心是否有問題，你都可能覺得有問題。而你現在正是如此對待自己的孩子，他們唯一能信賴的人就是父母。而做父母的有時候會說，有時候則不會，這因人而異。當然，每個人多少都有某些程度的焦慮，如果是身體的問題，也許需要吃藥，這我不清楚；但這是個心理狀況，而它會影響到身體，因此應該學習這類將注意力輕輕放在呼吸上的技巧，並且去討論這個「心」。就層次而言，我認為隨著孩子年齡增長可以慢慢改變，將更多重心放在這類行為上。我自己便見證到這一點，因為我這裡有一些小出家眾，年齡介於14到16歲之間，他們15歲起每天都做一小時的禪修，而是否在青少年時期開始做禪修，他們之間就有很大的不同、明顯的差異。謝謝！