明就仁波切：清明與安穩（下）
《獅子吼雜誌》2023.9.28專訪
What is buddhanature?
什麼是佛性？
Buddhanature is the fundamental quality of our mind. I often translate this as innate well-being. When I talk about the sky and the clouds, the sky is this innate well-being, which we all have, all the time.
佛性是心的根本自性。我通常將稱佛性解譯為內在本具的幸福感（innate well-being） 。當我說到天空和雲朵時，天空指的就是內在本具的幸福感，這是我們人人都具備的，而且一直都在。
Thoughts and emotions and perceptions go up and down, but the fundamental quality of well-being is beyond all of this. It’s pure, and it has a quality of knowing awareness, inseparable from emptiness. You don’t need to get rid of anything. You don’t have to do anything. Let everything be as it is and discover this wonderful quality of the mind within yourself. For Vajrayana Buddhists, the main practice is how to find the fundamental quality of our own mind.
念頭、情緒、感知會有起伏，但幸福感這個根本性質則超越所有這些。它是純淨的，且具有與空性無別的了知覺性。不用斷除什麼，也不用去做什麼。任由一切如是，並發掘自己內在這個善妙的心的自性。對金剛乘行者而言，主要的修行就是看見如此的自心本性。
Why is it difficult for people to recognize their buddhanature?
人們為何難以認出自己的佛性？
Because it’s too easy! (laughs) For example, someone might say, “Oh, I lost my glasses!” They look around; they can’t see them. It turns out that the glasses are perched on the top of their head. Usually we’re looking for something special, but what’s most special is already within us. We ignore it. It’s too close. There are lines on my hand, but if I bring my hand too close to my eyes, I cannot see them.
就因為太容易了！（笑）舉個例子來說，有人說：「啊，我的眼鏡不見了！」然後四處尋找，都看不到眼鏡。其實眼鏡一直掛在自己的頭上。我們往往要尋找什麼特別的東西，但最特別的東西本來就於我們的內在裡。我們卻看不見，因為太近了。就像我手掌上有許多紋路，如果我湊得太近，反而看不見。
What is enlightenment?
什麼是證悟？
When we talk about enlightenment in the Dzogchen and Mahamudra traditions, we mean fully recognizing our true nature, buddhanature. In order to achieve that, we go through three stages: understanding, experience, and direct realization.
如果從大圓滿和大手印的傳統來探討證悟，意思指的是全然認識到真實的自性，也就是佛性。要達到這個境界，要通過三個階段：理解、體驗、現證。
Understanding is like learning about the moon from a book. The book describes its color, shape, qualities. But the painting of the moon in the book is not the real moon. At the beginning of the path, when we reflect on our true nature, it’s just words and some feelings, some taste of experiences and realizations—all mixed together.
理解就像透過書本認識月亮，書中描述月亮的顏色、形狀、特徵。但是書中的月亮圖像並非真正的月亮。在修道的初始階段，我們所思惟的真實自性還停留在文字層面，混雜著一些感受，也嚐到某種的覺受與了悟。
However, the painting of the moon does help us learn more about the moon. We practice again and again, and our feeling for things goes up and down. Sometimes we have a lot of experiences, sometimes nothing happens.
不過，月亮的圖像確實能讓我們更加認識月亮。我們反覆再三地修持，感受也會起起伏伏，時而有種種覺受，時而則什麼都沒有。
Gradually, though, in the second stage, things become more stable. We’re not just working to understand conceptually. We have real experience. The truth comes alive. One day you go out and as you look at the water, you see the moon reflected in the lake. That reflection is much better than the painting of the moon. It’s higher quality, more alive, but still it’s not the real moon. At this second stage, even when you’re not meditating, your mind automatically enters the meditation. Even though there are still lots of ups and downs, behind the ups and downs, you can access meditation anytime. The sky is clearer. You can have clouds, but the clouds cannot change the sky.
不過，慢慢地，到了第二階段時，情況會變得比先前穩定。不再單純以智識來理解，而是有了真正的體會。能感受到實相。有一天你出門，看到湖水上有月亮的倒影。那個倒影遠勝於書中的月亮圖像，更細緻、更真實，但那還不是真正的月亮。在這個階段，即使沒在禪修，心也能自然進入禪修。雖然還是有著起起伏伏，但在那些起起伏伏中，你仍可隨時進入禪修。天空更加清澈，會有雲朵，但那些雲朵對天空沒有影響。
You continue to practice. And one day, direct realization dawns. The ideas, the words, the flavors—all that has gone. You really see your true nature, the fundamental quality of the mind that is the union of emptiness and luminosity. You go out and you look up, and you see the crescent moon, a tiny moon, but it is the real moon. Not the painted moon. Not the reflected moon. That is the first stage of enlightenment, not yet full enlightenment. There are nine more levels to go (laughs). At the final level, the crescent moon becomes the full moon.
於是你持續禪修，終有一天，現證如朝陽般顯露，那些想法、文字、滋味全都煙消雲散。你真正見到真實自性，明空不二的自心本性。你走到外面，抬頭看看天空，見到了新月，那月亮小小的，但卻是真正的月亮，不是畫出來的，也不是水面的倒影。這乃是證悟的初始階段，但還沒達到全然證悟。還有九關要過（笑）。通過最後一關時，新月將成為滿月。
That’s a lot of levels. Is enlightenment, then, something we could actually achieve in this lifetime?
關卡還真不少。如此一來，我們有可能這輩子就證悟嗎？
Yes, but of course it is very difficult, very rare. A level of direct realization is very possible, though. Even in my hometown, my grandpa and grandma, who didn’t know how to read or write, practiced Dzogchen, a profound meditation form of Tibetan Buddhism. Many people like them achieved realization, but full enlightenment is quite difficult.
有的，但這當然是相當艱難又稀有的例子。不過，要達到某種程度的現證，則是很有可能的。在我的家鄉，即使祖父母既不識字也不會寫字，但卻能修持大圓滿教法，這是藏傳佛教中的甚深禪修法門。很多像他們一樣的人能達到一些了證，但要獲致圓滿證悟則相當不易。
Is enlightenment a permanent state?
證悟是恆常的狀態嗎？
Not permanent, not impermanent. It’s beyond those concepts, beyond duality.
既非恆常，亦非無常。它超越這些概念，超越二元分別。
If someone is enlightened, do they experience difficult emotions, like sadness or anger?
如果一個人證悟了，他會有難受的情緒，像是悲傷或憤怒嗎？
These kinds of energies are transformed. Anger, for example, transforms into wisdom. You go beyond subject and object, beyond ignorance, aversion, and craving—you’re totally free of all that. But at the same time, you have love and compassion. With awareness and wisdom, you help beings. Now you are like the sky, totally beyond storms and pollution, beyond any kind of cloud, because you know clouds do not, cannot, change the nature of the sky.
這類的能量會轉化，比如嗔怒將轉化成智慧（譯注：大圓鏡智）。超越能所主客，超越愚痴、嗔怒、貪愛—全然離於這些，而同時，又具有慈與悲。你帶著覺知與智慧，利益眾生。那時的你，將有如天空，全然超越暴風雨、污染、各式各樣的雲朵，因為你知道雲朵既不會、也不能影響天空的自性。
How can we truly taste the truth of emptiness and no-self?
我們要怎麼做，才能真正嚐到空性與無我的實相［滋味］？
In Buddhism, we talk about eight consciousnesses. The first five are the five senses. The sixth is the mental consciousness, which is talk and imagination, a lot of words and images, blah, blah, yada, yada. Sometimes, we call that the monkey mind. The seventh consciousness is me, me, me: I’m important. I don’t care about others. I have to win. What about me? Out of that, we create karma, which resides in the alaya, the eighth consciousness.
佛法談到了八種心識，前五種是五種感官的知覺（五根識），第六種是意識，就是［內在的］講述、想像，一堆話語，一堆意象，種種的叨絮。有時候，我們稱之為猴子心。第七識則是「我、我、我」—我最重要，我才不管別人死活，我就是要贏。那我呢？我們因而造業，而這些業會儲存在阿賴耶識，也就是第八識。
To counteract that, we can bring self-awareness to that sense of me. You don’t have to do much at the beginning. You don’t need to tell it to get out. Just sense it. Feel it, like you would the breath. See what happens. Sometimes it may disappear, and there’s a gap. Sometimes, you may see “me” as so many different factors or pieces: my body, my name, my job, my title, my friends. Because of my students, I’m a teacher. Because of my teacher, I’m a student. So many pieces!
為了加以反制，便要對那個「我」的想法有所覺察。一開始不用大花力氣，也不用叫它滾出去。只要保持覺知，知道它的存在，就像對自己的呼吸那樣去感受它，看看會出現什麼。有時當它消失，便會有一個間隙；有時，你可能會覺得「我」是一大堆不同的元素或零件湊成的：我的身體、我的名字、我的工作、我的頭銜、我的朋友。因為我有學生，所以我成為老師；因為我有老師，所以我是個學生。林林總總，沒完沒了！
When we look at all that, we see that the pieces are all connected, interdependent. They’re also changing, impermanent. As we see more with awareness, automatically we go beyond that sense of me, into shunyata, emptiness. When the sunlight of awareness appears, the darkness is automatically eliminated.
如果觀察所有這些，便會發現它們全都彼此牽連、相互依存，同時也是遷變、無常的。當我們透過覺知而有更多的洞見時，就能自然地超越這個「我」的想法，而進入空性。當覺知如旭日的光芒展現，［無明］黑暗自然消失殆盡。
What do you think about secular mindfulness, which has become so popular in the West? Is it missing something?
非宗教的世俗正念在西方社會大受歡迎，請問您對此有什麼想法？世俗正念有什麼不足的地方嗎？
Secular mindfulness in a way is really helping many people. Three things may be missing, though. The first is intention. When you meditate, the meditation helps you. That’s self-compassion, which is very important. At the same time, though, you could have the intention of meditating to help your friends, family, society, and all beings.
從一方面來說，非宗教的世俗正念的確幫助了很多人，不過其中可能有三個不足之處。第一個不足之處是動機（發心）。禪修對你有益，如此屬於對自己的悲心，這一點相當重要。但是，你的動機也可以是為了幫助朋友、家人、社會、一切眾生而練習禪修。
The second aspect that may be missing is view. Normally, in secular mindfulness you’re just taught how to relax, how to be with your breath, how to be present now. But in Buddhist practice, we always start with view, right from the beginning, including the understanding of buddhanature, how your self is made of so many interdependent and ever-changing pieces, and how you can go beyond subject and object.
第二個可能的不足之處是見地。世俗正念的教導，通常只是在於如何放鬆，如何與呼吸同在，如何安住當下。但在佛法的修持中，打從最開始，總是會以見地為出發點，這些見地包括對佛性的認識、自我如何由許多相互依存、不停更迭的零件所建構出來，以及如何超越能所主客［的二元分別］。
The third thing that may be missing in secular mindfulness is at the level of application. In the buddhadharma, there’s an ongoing path. And that path of spiritual development—bringing dharma to life—is not like a spa, where you go to feel better. It’s about a deeper level of ongoing transformation.
世俗正念第三個可能的不足之處，在於它的應用層次。佛法提供了一條持續前進的道途，而這條將佛法引入生活的修行之道，並非像是水療，讓你自我感覺更好。它關乎讓轉化得以更為深入、更為延續。
~ 出處：
Lion’s Roar https://www.lionsroar.com/mingyur-rinpoche-interview/
Clarity & Calm: An Interview with Mingyur Rinpoche
BY ANDREA MILLER AND YONGEY MINGYUR RINPOCHE|
SEPTEMBER 28, 2023
～普賢法譯小組Becca翻譯/ Serena 校對，［］為校對所加、以利閱讀，祈願一切賢善吉祥！
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