資深佛法譯者 Erik Pema Kunsang 與年輕譯者之間的問答(一)
Q&A For Young Translators with Erik Pema Kunsang
[Hello everyone and welcome to this Q&A session with Erik Pema Kunsang and um we tried to arrange a session like this in November during the Fall seminar in Lumbini at the Thousand Buddha Temple but it didn't work out at that time. So now we are very fortunate and grateful that Erik has um accepted our request to facilitate this session in this way and yeah so now we're able to all meet digitally together and this is in fact the um first meeting with Dharma Gyan International Youth Sangha and we're happy that so many people um are here and yeah there's small group of our students all watching together and yeah so I think Erik doesn't need an introduction and um yeah he's …]
Hello everyone let's first test the um sound quality, can you hold here. Yes. If any of you can't hear, you have switched off your um some of your equipment. Anyway, you have a chance to uh test that while we chant the first uh invocation. And uh afterwards, I'll explain why we do that.
(以上摘譯)……首先念誦祈請文,之後我會解釋為何要這麼做。[1]
HUNG ༔
In the land of Uddiyana’s northwest border, ༔
On the pistils of a lotus flower’s stem, ༔
You have reached the marvel of the supreme siddhi, ༔
And became known by the name the Lotus-Born. ༔
With surrounding circles of many dakinis, ༔
In your footsteps I will reach accomplishments. ༔
Please approach in order to bestow your blessings. ༔
GURU PEMA SIDDHI HUNG ༔
吽༔
鄔⾦刹⼟西北隅,༔
蓮花花莖蓮胚上,༔
稀有殊勝成就者,༔
世稱名號蓮花⽣,༔
空⾏眷屬眾圍繞。༔
我隨汝尊⽽修持,༔
祈請降臨賜加持!༔
咕嚕貝瑪悉地吽༔
Samanthabhadra, Vajrasattva, Prahevajra, and Shri Singha,
Padmasambhava, King, all the twenty-five disciples,
So, Zur, Nub, Nyag, hundred tertöns and the others,
Gurus of the Kama and the Terma, hear our call.
普賢、⾦薩、極喜、師利星,
蓮師、君臣⼆⼗五弟⼦,
索、素、努、娘百餘伏藏師, 祈請教傳、伏藏諸上師。
吽༔ HUNG ༔
鄔⾦刹⼟西北隅,༔ In the land of Uddiyana’s northwest border, ༔
蓮花花莖蓮胚上,༔ On the pistils of a lotus flower’s stem, ༔
稀有殊勝成就者,༔ You have reached the marvel of the supreme siddhi, ༔
世稱名號蓮花⽣,༔ And became known by the name the Lotus-Born. ༔
空⾏眷屬眾圍繞。༔ With surrounding circles of many dakinis, ༔
我隨汝尊⽽修持,༔ In your footsteps I will reach accomplishments. ༔
祈請降臨賜加持!༔ Please approach in order to bestow your blessings. ༔
咕嚕貝瑪悉地吽༔ GURU PEMA SIDDHI HUNG ༔
普賢、⾦薩、極喜、師利星, Samanthabhadra, Vajrasattva, Prahevajra, and Shri Singha,
蓮師、君臣⼆⼗五弟⼦, Padmasambhava, King, all the twenty-five disciples,
索、素、努、娘百餘伏藏師, So, Zur, Nub, Nyag, hundred tertöns and the others,
祈請教傳、伏藏諸上師。 Gurus of the Kama and the Terma, hear our call.
密嚴刹⼟法界宮殿中, In the dharmadhatu palace, Akanishtha,
三世⼀切諸佛之體性, Essence of the buddhas in the triple times,
開顯指示自⼼即法身, Who directly shows our mind as dharmakaya,
根本上師⾜下敬祈請。 O root guru, heed our yearning call.
In the Dharmadhatu Palace, Akanishtha,
Essence of the buddhas in the triple times,
Who directly shows our mind as dharmakaya,
O root Guru, heed our yearning call.
密嚴刹⼟法界宮殿中,
三世⼀切諸佛之體性,
開顯指示自⼼即法身,
根本上師⾜下敬祈請。
4:42
All right, so, here we are, auspiciously together in one room, in one magical room. We’re not in the same room but at the same time, we ARE in the same room. On an inner level, we are in the shared room called Dharmadhatu, the space within which all things originate and melt away.
好的,藉由吉祥緣起,我們得以共聚一堂,於此神奇的房間裡:我們並不在同一個房間裡,但也可以說此時此刻,我們確實在同一個房間裡。就內在層次來說,我們共享著稱為「法界」的空間,這是所有事物的生起和消融之處。
And is that the same for everyone? We have to say yes. But we can’t say it’s ONLY the same, because each person may have their own enclosure, little bit like prison, but a personal space. We all often have the feeling “I want to be alone.” And then we have, luckily, a personal space which is that area where our own thoughts and feelings unfold and melt away. But we also have a shared space, that we can for a moment have open mind. And that means that just like the space inside my hand is personal Erik’s closed fist. It is possible to open this and gently, slowly so that this space inside and the space outside are no longer divided.
而這件事對所有人來說都相同嗎?我們得說:是的。然而,我們也不能說必然相同,因為每個人都有各自的界線(外牆),有點像是監獄,那是屬於個人的空間。我們時常會這樣想:「我想要獨處。」有幸的,我們每個人確實擁有一個能讓各種念頭、感覺展開又消融的個人空間。不過,我們也擁有一個共享的空間,其中能暫時將自心敞開。這意味著,就像我手裡的空間,是屬於Erik封閉拳頭之內的個人空間,只要我輕輕、慢慢地把手(掌心)打開,裡面的空間就可與外面的空間不再分離。
That is the purpose of chanting the first three verses. So that with respect and the appreciation for all the teachers who went before us, and all the meditators who went before us, and practiced the sense of opening their minds, we can share that room with everyone all the way back to the dharmakaya, Buddha Samantabhadra.
這就是我們一開始念誦三段偈頌的目的:帶著對所有過往上師、過往修士的恭敬與感恩,由於他們曾以敞開自心的方式來修持,我們才得以與大家共享這個可一路回溯至普賢王如來、法界的房間。
And in this sense, the inspiration and the blessing of everyone is no longer separated just like the space inside—Erik’s heart and mind—is no longer separated from the space of all awakened beings.
就此意義來說,他們所有的啟發與加持便不再[與我們]有所分別,如同[象徵]Erik情感心與理智心的拳頭空間,不再與所有覺悟者的空間有所分別。
That is very important at the beginning of not only meditation practice, but any period of studying, we stay for a little while with open mind, so that the inspiration of the buddha, of the dharma, and of the sanga, of the gurus, the yidams and the dakanis, and of the three kayas, are able to touch our hearts deeply and completely.
不只在禪修之前,而是在任何聞思之前,都應該花點時間,敞開自心,好讓佛、法、僧、上師、本尊、空行,以及三身的啟發能深深地、徹底地觸及我們的心。這件事非常重要。
It doesn’t have to be long. Just long enough for the sound to disappear. And during that time, you don't have to meditate in the conventional way. Just remain at ease and open-minded. Little bit like a child, curious but not fixated on anything.
(敲缽一下~)時間不需要長,大概就是讓(頌缽)聲音消散的長度即可。於此期間,你也不需要以約定俗成的方式來禪修,只要放鬆、敞開而安住,有點像個帶著好奇而不固著於任何事物的孩子那樣。
I’m very happy for this opportunity to share some of the insights which I have been given, learned, and practiced together with my own teachers, many of whom have passed away, passed on, passed beyond. And also some of whom are still very much alive, like Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche, who has established the Dharma Gyan Program, many of you are involved in that, many of you may be not, doesn’t matter. The questions I have been given are mainly from the students in Nepal at the Dharma Gyan, Meredith, is that correct?
很高興有這個機會,在此與諸位分享一些我從導師那兒所獲得、學習,並與他們一同修持的洞察,而這些導師大部分已經離開人世、延續轉世、超然於世,有些則仍相當活躍[於弘法事業中],例如此Dharma Gyan計畫的創始人確吉尼瑪仁波切。你們許多人都已加入這個計畫,有些可能還沒,都無妨。這一次我收到的提問,主要是來自尼泊爾Dharma Gyan計劃的學生。請問 Meredith,我的理解正確嗎?
[Meredith: Yep, they're mostly from Dharma Gyan. Some are from the Portuguese sangha as well and some from online. But this is what we discussed in November.]
Meredith:是的。他們絕大多數來自Dharma Gyan,有些是葡萄牙的僧伽,部分則是線上的學員。而這是我們在十一月份就討論到的。
Alright. I have the questions here in front of me. Some are particularly translator questions, and I’ll keep those a little bit and dive straight into the personal questions. Now I want more general question about the practical life. I’d like to share with you a story that H. H. Dali Lama told when he visited Denmark in 1972-1973, I think, that’s more than 50 years ago. And I was a young student at that time, I still went to college, but inside I was burning and earning to learn the dharma. And he told the story that which actually took me quite a few years to find out what he meant.
好的。在我面前有些提問,其中特別是關於譯者的提問,我會先擱在一邊,直接深入其他關於個人的提問。此刻,我比較想討論關於實際生活的一般問題。我想與諸位分享達賴喇嘛在1972-1973年拜訪丹麥時所說的一則故事。我想這應該是五十多年前的事了。當時我是個年輕學子,還在讀大學,但對於學習佛法已有著滿腔的熱忱與渴望。我其實花了好幾年的時間,才想通他說這個故事所要傳達的意思。
It was happened in Tibet, old Tibet. There was a person who wanted to practice the dharma. He looked around and he saw dharma practitioners how they behaved. So his first step was to imitate other people. One person was holding the mala/rosary, so he also got one in one of these dharma boutiques and he learned a mantra, for example OM MANI PADME HUNG HRIH, and he was very genuinely just chanting that OM MANI PADME HUNG HRIH …..until he got wrinkles in his forehead, practiced very earnest. So he went to a teacher and he said “now I began chanting the mantra OM MANI PADME HUNG HRIH. What do you think about that?” and the dharma teacher he responded “very good. But wouldn’t it be better to practice the dharma?”
這個故事發生在西藏、舊時代的西藏。有個人想修持佛法。他觀察四周,看看佛法行者的舉止。所以,他的第一步是模仿別人。有位行者手持念珠,於是他也去佛具用品店買了一串念珠,並學習持咒,例如「嗡嘛呢唄嘛吽啥」。他非常誠心地就只是持誦「嗡嘛呢唄嘛吽啥」,直到額頭上都出現了皺紋。他在如此熱切修持後,就去問一位老師,他說:「我目前開始持誦『嗡嘛呢唄嘛吽啥』這個咒語。您覺得如何?」這位佛法老師回答他:「很好啊!但如果你可以修持佛法,不是更好嗎?」
So he thought “Something must be missing. maybe I should also make prostrations” this where you bow down and stretch out on the ground, which in Tibet is called the yogi’s outstretched greeting. And he did that and then he went to the dharma teacher and said “I’m doing prostrations now. What do you think?” He said “very good. But wouldn’t it be better to practice the dharma?” And it went on like that: he also joined the Dharma Gyan the youth group and started to learn texts like that and explanations, and learn by heart and try to memorize and understand what the meaning was. And he went back to the teacher Oseling in old Tibet and asked “What do you think about this?” and the teacher said “very good. But wouldn’t it be better to practice the dharma?”
於是他想:「肯定還少了什麼。我或許也應該禮佛。」那種跪拜在地而伸展四肢的禮佛方式,在西藏稱為「瑜伽士的大禮拜」。他做了大禮拜之後,再度回去問那位佛法老師:「我正在修大禮拜,您覺得呢?」老師回他:「很好啊!但如果你可以修持佛法,不是更好嗎?」事情就這麽繼續下去:他接著加入Dharma Gyan這個青年團體,開始研讀經文、論釋,用心學習,並試著記住、搞懂其中的意義。然後他再度回到「光明洲」這個舊時代的西藏寺院,問他的老師:「您覺得這樣如何?」老師回答:「很好啊!但如果你可以修持佛法,不是更好嗎?」
And then he also sat down in meditation posture with closed eyes, and very quiet and serene and not doing anything, not moving for 15-20 min. And then went back to the teacher “Now I’m doing the meditation practice. What do you think?” the teacher said “very good. But wouldn’t it be better to practice the dharma?” and the Dali lama laughed.
於是他又坐下來閉上眼睛,以禪修的坐姿,十分默然、寧靜地什麼事也不做,完全不動地過了15-20分鐘。然後又回去老師那兒說:「我現在開始練習禪修,您覺得呢?」老師回答:「很好啊!但如果你可以修持佛法,不是更好嗎?」達賴喇嘛說到這兒時,就笑了。
That was in 1972, but the story is timeless. It is so easy for us to be “practitioners” make believe imitation of the outward, the superficial way of which we sometimes equate with/ as same as dharma practice. But what is “Dharma practice” really?
這是1972年說的故事,但至今仍歷久彌新。我們很容易就假想,若能於外在和表象上模仿「修行者」,就等同於修持佛法。但「修持佛法」究竟是什麼?
We shouldn’t be too quick about deciding that. Because the first glance, the first understanding we may have of dharma practice is surface: how it looks like-- from the outside, not from the inside. But Dharma practice is always from the inside. In Tibetan it’s called nang don rig pa*: understanding the inner meaning. And outer is how it looks like the physical, the surface, but the inner is your heart and mind.
我們不該太快下結論。因為我們對於修持佛法的最初一瞥、初步理解,僅止於表面:它看起來像是怎樣,都關乎外表,而非其內在。然而,修持佛法向來要源於內在。藏語稱之為nang don rig pa*,意思是「理解內在的意義」。外在是關乎所看到的物質、表象層面,而內在指的是你的情感心和思惟心。
* ནང་དོན་རིག་པ https://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/nang_don_rig_pa
So what is Dharma practice there? It is like I (meant) showed before with my fist—it is losing up the tightness of the tension of self-centered attitude. Loosening up the tension of self-centered attitude, that itself is dharma practice. How it looks like from the outside, whether we are prostrating, reciting mantra, chanting from a scripture, learning by heart, copying texts, doing translation, and looking like the mind is composed in evenness, even though who can show how the mind is? Cannot. But the body can show that supposedly this meditator is now in equanimity. Like this. But it could also be just very busying thinking about what’s going on. Or very busy daydreaming, remembering passed events, planning future. All different things we could make ourselves busy with while just sitting quietly, and looking serene, calm, and clear.
那麼,修持佛法究竟是指什麼?就像剛才我以拳頭為例:讓自我中心態度所致的那種張力、緊繃,得以鬆開。鬆開自我中心態度所致的張力,這本身就是修持佛法。至於外表看來如何,不管是做大禮拜、念誦咒語、持誦經文、用心學習、抄寫經文、進行翻譯,這些看似內心平等安住,但有誰能展現出心的狀態嗎?不能。但可從身體外觀推測,禪修者也許處在平等捨中。像這樣。但他也有可能只是忙著思考當時所發生的事,或忙著做白日夢、回憶過去、計劃未來。即使我們平靜坐著,看似寧靜、安穩且清明,然而各式各樣的事情,都能使我們的內心陷入忙碌之中。
But real dharma practice is in your heart. And this will, is answering a lot of your questions. Loosening up the tightness of self-centered attitude, that is dharma practice. And it is always invisible. It’s impossible to make a show of that. You cannot look like, or pretend to be a dharma practitioner. It’s impossible. Only one person know, let’s say two—the Buddha and yourself. Not other people can judge that. Therefore we cannot judge who is practicing the dharma and who is not. So we might as well just forget it and be concerned with the area that we can, I wouldn’t say control, but manage, and that is this mind and this heart.
但真正的佛法修持,是在心中。這正是諸位大部分提問的答案。「鬆開自我中心態度所致的緊繃」,就是修持佛法。這完全是不可見的。你不可能把它展現給大家看。你無法看似為、或假裝為一個行者。這是不可能的。只有一個人、應該說兩個人知道:佛陀,還有你自己。沒有其他人能夠評斷此事。所以,我們也無法判定誰在修持佛法、誰沒有修持。因此就不要管別人了,只要關注我們能夠「管理」的部分(我個人不認為是「控制」),也就是這個思惟心和情感心。
The other people, we wish “may they do their best”, but we cannot know whether someone else is practicing the dharma or not. It’s impossible. Can we agree on this? Nod if you mean yes, shake your head if you mean no. Yes or no? Can we agree on this? So from now on, we don’t need to judge other people whether they are practicing the dharma or not. Also it’s very tiring. But we can judge ourselves, whether this mind is loosened up the tightness of self-centered emotion, self-centered attitude. That is always possible to check that. And that is the real meaning of mindfulness—not just to notice whether the hand is holding the cup, the hand is moving toward the mouth—that is not called mindfulness. That is called being conscious, and everyone is conscious. ALL MINDS ARE CONCIOUS. As a matter of fact, consciousness is conscious, always. No need to bow and scrape towards that because then all sentient being would already be free and enlightened. And that’s not the case.
對於其他人,我們則祈禱「願他們盡力而為」,但我們無法知道誰是否在修持佛法。我們不可能知道。各位可以認同這一點嗎?認同的話請點頭,不認同請搖頭。認同或不認同?我們都一致認同嗎?那麼,從現在起,不要評斷別人是否在修持佛法。而且,去管別人是很累的事。我們只需要評斷自己,確認自己的心是否真的鬆開自我中心這種情緒和態度所致的緊繃。這是我們隨時都能確認的。而這也是「正念」的真正意涵,而非是否注意到「我手上拿著杯子、那隻手正朝向嘴巴靠近」,那可不是正念,而是覺知。每個人都能覺知,所有的心都能覺知。事實上,心識向來都是有覺知的。不必為此躬身費力,否則一切有情眾生早就解脫成佛了。但情況非然。
What we need to be concerned with is the practice of mindfulness, is whether this mind is tightly closed in around its own aims, its own, meaning self-centered. That is what we should notice. And when that is a case, loosen up by means of and by help of dharma practice, in a superficial sense—takes support of chanting mantra, doing prostration, reading text, studying, learning, listening to teaching… all of that array is a help for untying the knot of selfishness. So all conventional dharma activities are important as support, as help. But they are not the real dharma practice, which is loosening up the tightness of selfishness. All right?
我們需要在乎的是正念修持:我們的心是否過於緊閉、只關注自身的目標,也就是它是否以自我為中心。這才是我們該注意的。若有這種情況,就要藉由佛法修持來幫助自己,例如持咒、做大禮拜、讀誦經文、研讀、學習、聽聞法教等作為助緣,用種種看似表面的方法來解開自私的心結。所以,各種約定俗成(世俗)的佛法活動,乃是重要的支持與幫助,但這些本身並非真正的佛法修持。因為佛法修持是要鬆開自私所致的緊繃。明白嗎?
I like to say this a hundred and eight more times, but we should go on to other questions. This is an answer to many of the questions. All right? And thank Dalai Lama for that. There's one question here.
單單這件事,我就可以再講一百零八遍,但應該要繼續回答其他問題了。而這個重點就是各位許多問題的答案,對吧!感謝達賴喇嘛(講了這個故事)。來看下一個提問。
~ 待續
~ 普賢法譯小組 Liying 翻譯 / Serena 校對,祈願一切賢善吉祥!
[1] 譯註:以上三段祈請文出自 "Concise Daily Practice" 其中的Supplications,由Erik Pema Kunsang所指導的Bodhi Translation英譯;中譯出自 "Open Sky Dharma Chants_Bilingual" 的「課前唱誦」,為Erik Pema Kunsang課程的主要唱誦內容之一。以下文中[]內的字詞,是譯者為了幫助讀者理解所添加的,()內的字詞則是另一個同義詞。
